An exclusive interview with Jeff Newel, Director of Research and Development at Hillphoenix Systems Division, reveals the company’s view of the natural refrigerant market in North America. He speaks about the potential benefits, challenges and general trends manufactures face when implementing CO2 systems in the North American market.
R744.com: What is Hillphoenix’s role in regards to promoting a change for refrigerants in the US?
Newel: For our Northern customers we see the CO2 Booster System as a great solution because it offers them energy-efficiency and a step away from refrigerants that may bring them more concerns in the future. We are working to move the energy efficiency line further south. There are also other types of systems that include CO2 that are energy efficient and offer reductions in synthetic refrigerants, some examples of these systems are CO2 cascade systems or CO2 secondary systems. These are currently good choices for the southern United States. They will allow the end-user to minimize the amount of refrigerant used as the top-end or primary refrigerant. Hillphoenix is trying to offer what we see as the best solution both from a current cost perspective, which is of course important to our customers, and a future cost perspective. We are looking towards an uncertain refrigerant future and we would like to help our customers avoid having to ever consider replacing refrigerants again, or ever worry about having to pay fines for leaks etc. We don’t know what the political environment will dictate in the future, but given the lifetime of a store, if they can make a good choice now considering CO2, they will be able to go forward in what may be the best way for them.
R744.com: When you travel back to the US, what will you share with stakeholders and colleagues about the direction of the F-gas revisions taking place here in Europe?
Newel: We still don’t know how far or what direction this will take, but I am led to believe that there will be some sort of phase down on HFCs, especially high GWP HFCs, implemented in a way that is seen as smart, which would change the industry rapidly and result in a shift away from those refrigerants. Europe will likely lead, the US will quickly follow, probably starting with California and then work back across the country.
R744: For CO2 refrigeration, which market - Europe, the US or Asia – do you think has made the greatest progress?
Newel: Definitely Europe for CO2 systems in commercial applications. If you include some of the other Natural Refrigerants, there is probably something to be said for Asia because they have a lot of small system applications using CO2 and Hydrocarbons, but in general for CO2 I definitely believe it is Europe.
R744.com: Regarding other refrigerants, in Asia there are several demonstration projects for HC air conditioners. Do you think that in the future there will be a greater acceptance of flammable refrigerants such as hydrocarbons in the US?
Newel: I have not seen a lot of movement in that direction yet; at least from our perspective, which is that of a manufacturer of larger equipment. We’re not seeing that movement because our charge volumes are so large. Appliance manufacturers, such as, I believe, GE and some of the others, are looking at this more seriously. Hydrocarbons have been used within small appliances in Europe successfully for a while, so they already have a good track record, but adoption in the US is probably going to be more of a challenge because of our legal environment.
R744.com: What do you predict the market share of Natural Refrigerants will be in the next 5 years in Europe, Asia and the US?
Newel: I think that Europe is going to lead in terms of market share, and if the current F-gas legislation ends up anything like it seems, naturals could have up to a 70% [market share], possibly. For the United States, I cannot say percentage-wise how quickly it will evolve. Other incentives are needed, but right now one of the advantages to switching to natural refrigerants in the US is that you will avoid the unknowns that are connected to synthetic refrigerants. So as a result, there is already a movement in that direction. Presently we may be at 20-30% [market share] on new shipments, and in regards to 5 years from now, we could possibly be at 40-50% or more, I don’t know. As for China, I can’t really make a prediction. I think the government there will move towards the best and easiest energy solution; they will probably try to avoid HFCs as much as possible. You are likely to see a mixture of R32 and natural refrigerants, and I don’t know which one they are going to prefer.
R744.com: What role did Hillphoenix play in the development of the UL LLC requirements for the use of CO2 in centralised transcritical commercial refrigeration systems?
Newel: Having a listed system is essential to selling in North America. We approached UL about our need for a listing on our Advansor system and worked with them to revise the appropriate UL/CSA safety standards so they addressed the operating pressures of a CO2 system. UL was good to work with through this process and clearly understood the importance of including CO2 in the standards. As part of this we also worked with our component vendors to help them evolve products and acquire listings on items we include in our system.
R744.com: What impact do you think the UL LLC requirements will have on the CO2 transcritical refrigeration market in the US?
Newel: The projects we did up to the point of getting a UL listing were “test” systems. While the design hasn’t changed the listing removes that “test” moniker and makes applying the technology in any jurisdiction as routine as any other system. It helps move it from an early adopter item to a more mainstream product. Having the design criteria defined in this way for our industry will help component manufacturers build standard products and other OEMs to create their own systems, both of which are important to continued market growth.
Thank you very much!
Newel: For our Northern customers we see the CO2 Booster System as a great solution because it offers them energy-efficiency and a step away from refrigerants that may bring them more concerns in the future. We are working to move the energy efficiency line further south. There are also other types of systems that include CO2 that are energy efficient and offer reductions in synthetic refrigerants, some examples of these systems are CO2 cascade systems or CO2 secondary systems. These are currently good choices for the southern United States. They will allow the end-user to minimize the amount of refrigerant used as the top-end or primary refrigerant. Hillphoenix is trying to offer what we see as the best solution both from a current cost perspective, which is of course important to our customers, and a future cost perspective. We are looking towards an uncertain refrigerant future and we would like to help our customers avoid having to ever consider replacing refrigerants again, or ever worry about having to pay fines for leaks etc. We don’t know what the political environment will dictate in the future, but given the lifetime of a store, if they can make a good choice now considering CO2, they will be able to go forward in what may be the best way for them.
R744.com: When you travel back to the US, what will you share with stakeholders and colleagues about the direction of the F-gas revisions taking place here in Europe?
Newel: We still don’t know how far or what direction this will take, but I am led to believe that there will be some sort of phase down on HFCs, especially high GWP HFCs, implemented in a way that is seen as smart, which would change the industry rapidly and result in a shift away from those refrigerants. Europe will likely lead, the US will quickly follow, probably starting with California and then work back across the country.
R744: For CO2 refrigeration, which market - Europe, the US or Asia – do you think has made the greatest progress?
Newel: Definitely Europe for CO2 systems in commercial applications. If you include some of the other Natural Refrigerants, there is probably something to be said for Asia because they have a lot of small system applications using CO2 and Hydrocarbons, but in general for CO2 I definitely believe it is Europe.
R744.com: Regarding other refrigerants, in Asia there are several demonstration projects for HC air conditioners. Do you think that in the future there will be a greater acceptance of flammable refrigerants such as hydrocarbons in the US?
Newel: I have not seen a lot of movement in that direction yet; at least from our perspective, which is that of a manufacturer of larger equipment. We’re not seeing that movement because our charge volumes are so large. Appliance manufacturers, such as, I believe, GE and some of the others, are looking at this more seriously. Hydrocarbons have been used within small appliances in Europe successfully for a while, so they already have a good track record, but adoption in the US is probably going to be more of a challenge because of our legal environment.
R744.com: What do you predict the market share of Natural Refrigerants will be in the next 5 years in Europe, Asia and the US?
Newel: I think that Europe is going to lead in terms of market share, and if the current F-gas legislation ends up anything like it seems, naturals could have up to a 70% [market share], possibly. For the United States, I cannot say percentage-wise how quickly it will evolve. Other incentives are needed, but right now one of the advantages to switching to natural refrigerants in the US is that you will avoid the unknowns that are connected to synthetic refrigerants. So as a result, there is already a movement in that direction. Presently we may be at 20-30% [market share] on new shipments, and in regards to 5 years from now, we could possibly be at 40-50% or more, I don’t know. As for China, I can’t really make a prediction. I think the government there will move towards the best and easiest energy solution; they will probably try to avoid HFCs as much as possible. You are likely to see a mixture of R32 and natural refrigerants, and I don’t know which one they are going to prefer.
R744.com: What role did Hillphoenix play in the development of the UL LLC requirements for the use of CO2 in centralised transcritical commercial refrigeration systems?
Newel: Having a listed system is essential to selling in North America. We approached UL about our need for a listing on our Advansor system and worked with them to revise the appropriate UL/CSA safety standards so they addressed the operating pressures of a CO2 system. UL was good to work with through this process and clearly understood the importance of including CO2 in the standards. As part of this we also worked with our component vendors to help them evolve products and acquire listings on items we include in our system.
R744.com: What impact do you think the UL LLC requirements will have on the CO2 transcritical refrigeration market in the US?
Newel: The projects we did up to the point of getting a UL listing were “test” systems. While the design hasn’t changed the listing removes that “test” moniker and makes applying the technology in any jurisdiction as routine as any other system. It helps move it from an early adopter item to a more mainstream product. Having the design criteria defined in this way for our industry will help component manufacturers build standard products and other OEMs to create their own systems, both of which are important to continued market growth.
Thank you very much!
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Apr 23, 2013, 16:18
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